Thank you, Tamara. It's really amazing how much this is resonating for others. Not an uncommon dynamic, it seems. But one that's really hard to live in. xo
What in depth soul searching you are doing Nan, applying a clear and I am sure not easy lens to the patterns of your parents and you as a child caught up in the midst of it. Glad you’re finding such supportive resources. I relate to this when I consider my own parents, whether there is trauma or not, entanglement exists that can be unhealthy for us; ‘I needed their backstory to make sense of my life. The thing I didn’t see clearly was the role I played with each of them.’
Thanks for reading, and for your thoughtful comments (always). I feel so lucky to be doing the work I'm doing...maybe luck isn't the right word, since I've chosen to do it! Maybe a more accurate way of putting it is that I'm grateful for the willingness to do this work. Life is good. xo
Yes, the willingness to do the work. And the courage and perseverance. I am always surprised at how many of my friends have no interest or desire for this inner work when I find it endlessly fascinating and healing, opening up my life in so many ways. Even if, and maybe especially because, it is painful to do so. Through the fire, a rebirth.
I can't imagine not having curiosity about the way I tick. Growth is thrilling to me. It's been quite an adventure; sometimes painful, sometimes joyful, always revealing. I think it's called life! xo
Nan.Your experience has brought you to brilliant insights snd clarity.. It can take a lifetime to untangle what seems like a a several thousand piece puzzle. This is beautifully written and it will be a work in progress as you uncover each new piece the puzzle. Your willingness to shine a light in dark places is truly brave and healing. Its an inspiration!
Thank you, Nan. I suspect my sisters suffered this covert emotional abuse from our mom. I know they did. They don't talk about it and that's hurtful to them since they remain in isolation. Our mom just died in December 2023 so I will have to give them time. Meanwhile I will work my steps. And yet I can still love my parents and know love is not enough.
Sex abuse of children, teens, seminarians and vulnerable people is like alcoholism: it's everywhere and it's part of the culture. People recover. Survivors will have to and do set the tone. May enablers follow and maybe one day, may the abusers make their first step, to manage their disease. Not just may they one day, but really, they will have to. Until then may survivors find their chosen family.
Blatant sex abuse is inexcusable, and I experienced some subtle boundary crossing that was sexual in nature, but I suffered more from covert incest, with both of my parents. I was like a little trained monkey running back and forth between them, catering to their emotional needs with little to no attention given to mine. It's taken years for me to work this out. I looked at your profile, so I see that you didn't go unharmed either, and I'm so sorry for what you went through. And your sisters went through it too, but of a different type. Boundaries so important, but we struggle to develop them, especially when our parents didn't have healthy ones to model for us. We go on, hopefully healing, and yes, chosen family is the one I choose to belong too. xo Thank you for reading and commenting, Henri. xo
I love the clarity you have worked so hard for. This is so enlightening, and your joy in finding the name for it, is rising off every word. Hooray for you. There really is a feeling of joy in this, although the subject is not joyous. Thank you for sharing it.
it me. love you so much. my parents didn't wait until I was an adult and I knew way, way too much. I was my mother's confidant and my father's partner in crime and deception. but, they did the best they could with what they had at the time, neither one of them grew up in happy marriages or had good role models, so...but I take issue with your title. not doomed. short-sheeted, screwed up, but not doomed. ❤️🩹
Thanks. The title of the piece is somewhat sarcastic. And it only really refers to the episode at the beginning, that the die was cast. I like my title because I gotta tell you, my life felt cursed for so long for too many reasons. Love you, Jodi. xo
I do not know about this covert incest. I will need to learn more. Thank you for bringing this to light. Thank you for being willing to share. And I hope this truth and sharing support you on your growth while also bringing and awareness to others.
It's pretty fascinating. It was a relief to have a specific definition of what I experienced in my family. It's so interesting to me that so few people seem to know about this, and at the same time, so many people go through similar things with their parents. I'm glad you read it. Thank you so much, Alicia. I love Joyful for your last name! xo
The exploration continues. Nan, thank you for your willingness to bring us with you as you dive deeper, always returning with some new insight and the knowledge that sharing is essential to understanding.
As a side note, I’m totally with you on the self-help book resistance. I just put a couple of those CBT/DBT workbooks in my Little Free Library. I think I had to redact a couple of pages in one of them. I realized a few pages in that these questions were pointless, and would never guide my way to self-knowledge. Just another therapy failure. Oh well.
Love you, sweetie. Always rely on your own headlamp. xoxo
Love you, darling Mary. I love the image of the headlamp. I wear one in bed when I'm reading at night. I will say that I agree with you on the self-help books thing, bar one this one exception. It was just the message I needed to confirm so many of the next steps I'm taking! Let's plan a chat, please! xo
It is hard to be "glad" about anything here, and yet I am glad you are getting answers or finding rubrics to better understand these relationships and how they impacted you then and now. Family dynamics can be such a puzzle (or minefield), and it seems that sometimes patterns emerge and devolve from something that may have been well-intended and spiraled, maybe in ways never really understood. I'm sorry you were caught in such a triangle, and I am glad that the work you are doing now is bringing clarity and at least understanding, if not healing. Naming can be so important.
The work is bringing both, thankfully, clarity and healing. It's empowering me to say more, write more, and go deeper. I spent so much of my life looking at my confusion, the many depressions, the years on disability thinking I was so broken that I'd never really have a full or good life. I blamed it on my heredity, but I was looking at the biological more than the coping mechanisms and dysfunctional place my family operated from. Knowing that engaging in the relationship from the early years of my childhood into somewhat recent adulthood, and thinking so little of myself, and feeling so trapped by the diagnosis I was labeled with for years, and then uncovering the nugget of trauma that I was saddled with as the more realistic definition of what I experienced explained so many things to me that I needed to know, so that I could heal and become the creative I was always meant to be has been the greatest gift I can imagine. I'm here, world! So, I am glad, relieved, encouraged, clear, grounded, and free. That's a lot to celebrate after decades of being frozen in beliefs that weren't true. xo
Nan, you're doing such a brave, in-depth investigation and exploration...I can almost see the decision tree of revelations in the way you've shared your thoughts here. Respect! and a ton of hugs.
Thank you, Victoria. It's a lot, and I think you're correct. I've been processing so many choices I'm making through the generative practice of writing about my life here.
Beautiful and brave, Nan. I remember sitting at my father's feet, competing for his attention against my mother, and winning. I recall the covert smile and the power it gave me - just that isolated moment. I also remember trying to attract the male gaze when I was a young adult, what it meant about me when it worked, and what it meant when it didn't. I collected the gaze, the sex part, not so much. Forge on, sister-friend. I'm looking forward to the memoirs. There are some interesting twists I can foresee. Much love, my friend, and may the journey be enlightening and gentle.
Thank you my dear. There's a lot there, for you, for me. I'm glad to be taking this walk with you, as I engage in this process. You are such a beautiful presence in my life. So grateful and greatful that our paths have merged, so that we could become friends. Love to you, xo
Appearances to others vs the day to day interior experience. How you were nurtured and harmed. What can be forgiven or tolerated and where those boundaries lie. I’m amazed that children sense everything and how they survive.
That it is. I think children really do know, on some level that something isn't right, and then spend a lot of time talking themselves out of it, because the harm doesn't make sense. And the need to create boundaries to keep oneself safe as a child are often impossible to make, because why would we mistrust the very people who claim they loved us so much, but caused so much pain. So confusing for a little one. xo
Wonderful, the thrill of enlightenment! It takes so long for most of us to see the unpleasant truths we've harbored for decades. But as we grow and change, sometimes those truths become more palatable, or at least bearable. Your ability to dig deep is a gift, Nan, and continues to be an instrument of your freedom. xoxo
Marilea! Hey, I want you to know, I bought both of your memoirs last week. I'm halfway through your first one, and the second one was delivered this afternoon. How come you're not writing on Substack? You're a terrific writer. Another writer here pointed me in the direction of Story Circle Network, a site I was unaware of. That's where I found you. We should Zoom one of these days, if you're interested.
Wow, Nan, I'm so flattered. Don;'t know how you even found my books cuz I don't market much. :( Actually there are 3 memoirs; the first one from 2014 was so raw that I used a pseudonym (Maggie C. Romero) but then I found my courage with Stepping Stones. BTW, Abby Thomas, who I know you know, taught me how to write in vignettes. She's my hero.
Anyway, I don't have my own Substack cuz I don't have a following. I've had a website for 10 years that no one reads www.recoveryofthespirit.com
So I lack a lot of confidence to actually put myself out there. I just write my recovery blog for a very small FB following in 12-Step groups.
Oh I would love to Zoom with you. You have so much to teach me and I know I should start my own Substack, but I'm just coming off chemo for lymphoma and am just getting my energy back.
Send me an email and let me know a good day and time for you. xoxo
First of all, here's what I want you to know. Ready? When I came to Substack in 2024, I had 25 subscribers and they were all people who knew me and loved me. I now have over 2200 subscribers, about 1800 on this stack and over 400 on my Style Your Stack site. I worked it, I mingled, I've met the most amazing people here. Some of them will be friends for life. I'm going to talk you into this (or at least I'll give it a try. I didn't know about your third memoir until tonight when I was back on the SCN website. It wasn't hard to find your books, and I'm reading them! I'll will reach out to you and we'll figure out a time.I do want to meet you, so much. Email coming your way! xo
Isn't it fascinating how being able to name something changes our position, a shift to the left or right of the way we've seen the thing. I can feel your happiness and, maybe even some relief, come through your words. And I so appreciate your commitment to keep digging.
Thanks, Jess. Don't get me wrong, after the first reading of the book, I walked around in a bit of a daze, taking it in. But mostly, I felt exactly that, relief. Something lifted for me, a huge heavy feeling that morphed into understanding, not just for myself but for my whole family. And it's complicated by the fact that a part of me was in love with my father, but that's a bigger element to tease apart. And I fed the codependence and manipulated right back, with both of them because I was angry, and I was afraid to stand on my own. One thing leads to the next and the next, until finally you can't remember who you are, the really you, because your sense of self has been obliterated by catering to others. I feel so grateful to have uncovered this really crucial piece for myself. It gives me hope that I am doing the next right thing, by writing the next write thing! xo
I had never before heard the term "covert incest," so thank you for shedding light on this phenomenon. I'm so sorry for all you endured, and I'm glad you are getting help. I've been in therapy 20+ years because of a dysfunctiional childhood (no covert incest), dysfunctional marriage, and having had cancer. It was the perfect storm of unwellness.
You are an amazing, powerful writer. Thank you for being brave enough to share your story.
Beth, thank you so much for your kind words. I hadn't heard the term either, and it was such a lightning bolt of recognition for me. Huge realization that was so validating. I've been working on how to approach the memoir I'm working on, and this is the way in. I'm hoping it will represent all of us (family of origin) in a compassionate light. It's an important topic, that many people experience. I'm so glad to be starting this conversation. xo
This was such an interesting piece, Nan. I suspect covert incest happens a lot more frequently than we talk about. It's just such a big gray area, which ends up making its victims feel more confused about their experiences. I'm glad you were able to put a name to what you went through and have taken the steps you need to protect yourself now.
You understand it perfectly. And the victims also feel gaslit, and might not be able to trust their take, that icky feeling, or other feelings like anger and resentment. I'm SO relieved to be able to name it. Identifying this has led me directly to my way in for the memoir I've been working on about me and my dad. xo
How incredibly raw and vulnerable. Thank you for sharing Nan, your story will undoubtedly resonate with many.
Thank you, Tamara. It's really amazing how much this is resonating for others. Not an uncommon dynamic, it seems. But one that's really hard to live in. xo
What in depth soul searching you are doing Nan, applying a clear and I am sure not easy lens to the patterns of your parents and you as a child caught up in the midst of it. Glad you’re finding such supportive resources. I relate to this when I consider my own parents, whether there is trauma or not, entanglement exists that can be unhealthy for us; ‘I needed their backstory to make sense of my life. The thing I didn’t see clearly was the role I played with each of them.’
Thanks for reading, and for your thoughtful comments (always). I feel so lucky to be doing the work I'm doing...maybe luck isn't the right word, since I've chosen to do it! Maybe a more accurate way of putting it is that I'm grateful for the willingness to do this work. Life is good. xo
Yes, the willingness to do the work. And the courage and perseverance. I am always surprised at how many of my friends have no interest or desire for this inner work when I find it endlessly fascinating and healing, opening up my life in so many ways. Even if, and maybe especially because, it is painful to do so. Through the fire, a rebirth.
I can't imagine not having curiosity about the way I tick. Growth is thrilling to me. It's been quite an adventure; sometimes painful, sometimes joyful, always revealing. I think it's called life! xo
Nan.Your experience has brought you to brilliant insights snd clarity.. It can take a lifetime to untangle what seems like a a several thousand piece puzzle. This is beautifully written and it will be a work in progress as you uncover each new piece the puzzle. Your willingness to shine a light in dark places is truly brave and healing. Its an inspiration!
Thank you, Dee. xo
Thank you, Nan. I suspect my sisters suffered this covert emotional abuse from our mom. I know they did. They don't talk about it and that's hurtful to them since they remain in isolation. Our mom just died in December 2023 so I will have to give them time. Meanwhile I will work my steps. And yet I can still love my parents and know love is not enough.
Sex abuse of children, teens, seminarians and vulnerable people is like alcoholism: it's everywhere and it's part of the culture. People recover. Survivors will have to and do set the tone. May enablers follow and maybe one day, may the abusers make their first step, to manage their disease. Not just may they one day, but really, they will have to. Until then may survivors find their chosen family.
Blatant sex abuse is inexcusable, and I experienced some subtle boundary crossing that was sexual in nature, but I suffered more from covert incest, with both of my parents. I was like a little trained monkey running back and forth between them, catering to their emotional needs with little to no attention given to mine. It's taken years for me to work this out. I looked at your profile, so I see that you didn't go unharmed either, and I'm so sorry for what you went through. And your sisters went through it too, but of a different type. Boundaries so important, but we struggle to develop them, especially when our parents didn't have healthy ones to model for us. We go on, hopefully healing, and yes, chosen family is the one I choose to belong too. xo Thank you for reading and commenting, Henri. xo
I love the clarity you have worked so hard for. This is so enlightening, and your joy in finding the name for it, is rising off every word. Hooray for you. There really is a feeling of joy in this, although the subject is not joyous. Thank you for sharing it.
Thank you, Abby. I'm so glad that the joy is evident to you, the relief I feel. Love you, my friend. xo
it me. love you so much. my parents didn't wait until I was an adult and I knew way, way too much. I was my mother's confidant and my father's partner in crime and deception. but, they did the best they could with what they had at the time, neither one of them grew up in happy marriages or had good role models, so...but I take issue with your title. not doomed. short-sheeted, screwed up, but not doomed. ❤️🩹
Thanks. The title of the piece is somewhat sarcastic. And it only really refers to the episode at the beginning, that the die was cast. I like my title because I gotta tell you, my life felt cursed for so long for too many reasons. Love you, Jodi. xo
I do not know about this covert incest. I will need to learn more. Thank you for bringing this to light. Thank you for being willing to share. And I hope this truth and sharing support you on your growth while also bringing and awareness to others.
It's pretty fascinating. It was a relief to have a specific definition of what I experienced in my family. It's so interesting to me that so few people seem to know about this, and at the same time, so many people go through similar things with their parents. I'm glad you read it. Thank you so much, Alicia. I love Joyful for your last name! xo
Thank you Nan. Joyful is my chosen name, is was my remembering of who I always was and am when I release the stories :)
A great intention. Love that.
The exploration continues. Nan, thank you for your willingness to bring us with you as you dive deeper, always returning with some new insight and the knowledge that sharing is essential to understanding.
As a side note, I’m totally with you on the self-help book resistance. I just put a couple of those CBT/DBT workbooks in my Little Free Library. I think I had to redact a couple of pages in one of them. I realized a few pages in that these questions were pointless, and would never guide my way to self-knowledge. Just another therapy failure. Oh well.
Love you, sweetie. Always rely on your own headlamp. xoxo
Love you, darling Mary. I love the image of the headlamp. I wear one in bed when I'm reading at night. I will say that I agree with you on the self-help books thing, bar one this one exception. It was just the message I needed to confirm so many of the next steps I'm taking! Let's plan a chat, please! xo
It is hard to be "glad" about anything here, and yet I am glad you are getting answers or finding rubrics to better understand these relationships and how they impacted you then and now. Family dynamics can be such a puzzle (or minefield), and it seems that sometimes patterns emerge and devolve from something that may have been well-intended and spiraled, maybe in ways never really understood. I'm sorry you were caught in such a triangle, and I am glad that the work you are doing now is bringing clarity and at least understanding, if not healing. Naming can be so important.
The work is bringing both, thankfully, clarity and healing. It's empowering me to say more, write more, and go deeper. I spent so much of my life looking at my confusion, the many depressions, the years on disability thinking I was so broken that I'd never really have a full or good life. I blamed it on my heredity, but I was looking at the biological more than the coping mechanisms and dysfunctional place my family operated from. Knowing that engaging in the relationship from the early years of my childhood into somewhat recent adulthood, and thinking so little of myself, and feeling so trapped by the diagnosis I was labeled with for years, and then uncovering the nugget of trauma that I was saddled with as the more realistic definition of what I experienced explained so many things to me that I needed to know, so that I could heal and become the creative I was always meant to be has been the greatest gift I can imagine. I'm here, world! So, I am glad, relieved, encouraged, clear, grounded, and free. That's a lot to celebrate after decades of being frozen in beliefs that weren't true. xo
Nan, you're doing such a brave, in-depth investigation and exploration...I can almost see the decision tree of revelations in the way you've shared your thoughts here. Respect! and a ton of hugs.
Thank you, Victoria. It's a lot, and I think you're correct. I've been processing so many choices I'm making through the generative practice of writing about my life here.
Beautiful and brave, Nan. I remember sitting at my father's feet, competing for his attention against my mother, and winning. I recall the covert smile and the power it gave me - just that isolated moment. I also remember trying to attract the male gaze when I was a young adult, what it meant about me when it worked, and what it meant when it didn't. I collected the gaze, the sex part, not so much. Forge on, sister-friend. I'm looking forward to the memoirs. There are some interesting twists I can foresee. Much love, my friend, and may the journey be enlightening and gentle.
Thank you my dear. There's a lot there, for you, for me. I'm glad to be taking this walk with you, as I engage in this process. You are such a beautiful presence in my life. So grateful and greatful that our paths have merged, so that we could become friends. Love to you, xo
Love you, too. To the moon and back.
YAY! xo
Fascinating.
Thank you, Michele. What did you find fascinating about it? xo
Appearances to others vs the day to day interior experience. How you were nurtured and harmed. What can be forgiven or tolerated and where those boundaries lie. I’m amazed that children sense everything and how they survive.
That it is. I think children really do know, on some level that something isn't right, and then spend a lot of time talking themselves out of it, because the harm doesn't make sense. And the need to create boundaries to keep oneself safe as a child are often impossible to make, because why would we mistrust the very people who claim they loved us so much, but caused so much pain. So confusing for a little one. xo
Wonderful, the thrill of enlightenment! It takes so long for most of us to see the unpleasant truths we've harbored for decades. But as we grow and change, sometimes those truths become more palatable, or at least bearable. Your ability to dig deep is a gift, Nan, and continues to be an instrument of your freedom. xoxo
Marilea! Hey, I want you to know, I bought both of your memoirs last week. I'm halfway through your first one, and the second one was delivered this afternoon. How come you're not writing on Substack? You're a terrific writer. Another writer here pointed me in the direction of Story Circle Network, a site I was unaware of. That's where I found you. We should Zoom one of these days, if you're interested.
Wow, Nan, I'm so flattered. Don;'t know how you even found my books cuz I don't market much. :( Actually there are 3 memoirs; the first one from 2014 was so raw that I used a pseudonym (Maggie C. Romero) but then I found my courage with Stepping Stones. BTW, Abby Thomas, who I know you know, taught me how to write in vignettes. She's my hero.
Anyway, I don't have my own Substack cuz I don't have a following. I've had a website for 10 years that no one reads www.recoveryofthespirit.com
So I lack a lot of confidence to actually put myself out there. I just write my recovery blog for a very small FB following in 12-Step groups.
Oh I would love to Zoom with you. You have so much to teach me and I know I should start my own Substack, but I'm just coming off chemo for lymphoma and am just getting my energy back.
Send me an email and let me know a good day and time for you. xoxo
Just sent you an email!
First of all, here's what I want you to know. Ready? When I came to Substack in 2024, I had 25 subscribers and they were all people who knew me and loved me. I now have over 2200 subscribers, about 1800 on this stack and over 400 on my Style Your Stack site. I worked it, I mingled, I've met the most amazing people here. Some of them will be friends for life. I'm going to talk you into this (or at least I'll give it a try. I didn't know about your third memoir until tonight when I was back on the SCN website. It wasn't hard to find your books, and I'm reading them! I'll will reach out to you and we'll figure out a time.I do want to meet you, so much. Email coming your way! xo
Isn't it fascinating how being able to name something changes our position, a shift to the left or right of the way we've seen the thing. I can feel your happiness and, maybe even some relief, come through your words. And I so appreciate your commitment to keep digging.
Thanks, Jess. Don't get me wrong, after the first reading of the book, I walked around in a bit of a daze, taking it in. But mostly, I felt exactly that, relief. Something lifted for me, a huge heavy feeling that morphed into understanding, not just for myself but for my whole family. And it's complicated by the fact that a part of me was in love with my father, but that's a bigger element to tease apart. And I fed the codependence and manipulated right back, with both of them because I was angry, and I was afraid to stand on my own. One thing leads to the next and the next, until finally you can't remember who you are, the really you, because your sense of self has been obliterated by catering to others. I feel so grateful to have uncovered this really crucial piece for myself. It gives me hope that I am doing the next right thing, by writing the next write thing! xo
Hi Nan,
I had never before heard the term "covert incest," so thank you for shedding light on this phenomenon. I'm so sorry for all you endured, and I'm glad you are getting help. I've been in therapy 20+ years because of a dysfunctiional childhood (no covert incest), dysfunctional marriage, and having had cancer. It was the perfect storm of unwellness.
You are an amazing, powerful writer. Thank you for being brave enough to share your story.
Beth, thank you so much for your kind words. I hadn't heard the term either, and it was such a lightning bolt of recognition for me. Huge realization that was so validating. I've been working on how to approach the memoir I'm working on, and this is the way in. I'm hoping it will represent all of us (family of origin) in a compassionate light. It's an important topic, that many people experience. I'm so glad to be starting this conversation. xo
I'm so glad you are working on your memoir. I'm sure it will be great!
Thank you, Beth. I'm hoping. I've never done this before. Oh, boy! I'm excited.
You can totally do it!
Thanks for your encouragement!
I want to say something relevant and valuable, but I'm at a loss for words here. Powerful comes to mind. Honest. Courageous. Deep.
So many things.
Thank you for your willingness to share such a personal story.
I think you did a great job just now! Thank you, Mimi. xo
This was such an interesting piece, Nan. I suspect covert incest happens a lot more frequently than we talk about. It's just such a big gray area, which ends up making its victims feel more confused about their experiences. I'm glad you were able to put a name to what you went through and have taken the steps you need to protect yourself now.
You understand it perfectly. And the victims also feel gaslit, and might not be able to trust their take, that icky feeling, or other feelings like anger and resentment. I'm SO relieved to be able to name it. Identifying this has led me directly to my way in for the memoir I've been working on about me and my dad. xo