I enjoyed this so much. For example, I didn’t see the divorce coming, but as soon as it did it seemed so inevitable. And, wow, so much of that est language is now deeply entrenched the culture. Just a lot to appreciate here. Super nice work!
Thanks, Chris. The training was something, that's for sure. Over time, I did a handful of graduate seminars, but it just didn't feel right to me as a healing mode. There was way too much control for me. I'm glad I did it, though. xo
This brought back a lot of memories of people i knew who went through est- from what I heard about it, it wasn’t for me. But I love the way that you were able to see that some of the concepts facilitated a way to look at things differently- and that can be a pathway to positive change. I like the way you noted the similarities and differences between est snd the 12 step program. I read this first and then listened to the recording. The recording brought the words even more to life for me than the first ttime around.
Thank you, Sarah. I'm glad. Programs like this aren't for everyone and I've never really experienced myself as a joiner or one drawn to group events...but that seems to be changing now, a little at a time. I'm really an introvert at heart. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing you tell a story this coming year at Wham Bam! xo
Yeah I can relate to that. Have always been an introvert and felt apart from the world in so many ways. But I think it has gotten easier over the years as I have felt increasingly ok with my different-ness and have found some community with others who feel similarly 🌸
I think we do find our people, and sometimes it takes a while. I think getting older has also been really helpful to me, and of course doing a lot of self-work. That helped the most. I needed it.
Loved reading this, Nan. I did the est training in my late twenties. I was young enough that it was all new to me. As a child of alcoholics, the structure was very attractive to me. The lack of bathroom breaks didn't bother me at all, but would be impossible for me now. My husband and I met doing the Communication Workshop. Fell in love and been together since, 42 years. Thanks for this memory lane.
Interesting! The 12-step program that I’ve been focusing on for myself is Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. Is making a huge difference in my life. I have a lot of people in my life who found each other at est and created amazing relationships and have been together for 50 years. I think that’s so wonderful Yay for you two! That’s marvelous. xo
Yes, me too! I started in ACA in the late 80s. After awhile I realized alcohol was my problem too. We are both sober now, since the early 90s, probably the only reason we could stay together. Thanks for a thought -provoking read.
I wish I'd started ACA in the late 80s. I mostly have dealt with eating disordered behavior as my coping mechanism of choice. I've done OA, EDA, open AA meetings when I couldn't find a food program that worked for me. Alcohol was never my go to for numbing. Eating was. I think of ACA as the Ph.D. program of 12-Step (for me). I think all of our issues have tons to do with early childhood trauma, attachment issues, and growing up in dysfunctional environments. HP was a welcome and just in time addition to my life. xo
I thought you'd get a kick out of my first ACA group which met in the Sunday School room and we all had to sit on the tiny chairs! Well, we were adult children after all...
All that and more. I guess that's what my golden years are meant for : quiet and safe enough to do the deep trauma work that I was too busy raising kids, going back to college, working, generally keeping it together. Too hard to do that work when you're trying to keep it together! ❤️🐝
That’s so true! I needed to struggle and suffer a lot for some reason before I came to a place of willingness to fix what needed fixing. I’m so happy to have arrived in this place in time. I like you, Ms. Bee.
Great essay. I still don’t understand the quote though. I keep almost reach it, which is, for me, the allure. I never did any of these trainings. In small town New England, it wasn’t a thing. I’m glad you met Grace. I’m glad you are happy and lighting up the with your joy.
That's how I felt for years. I really do "get it" though. Last night when I was recording today's post for Wham Bam, I saw my face, really saw it. I saw my beauty, the inner and outer, and then, and simultaneously, saw my 5-year old self. And she was so clear and sparkly and filled with love and wonder and fear and sweetness. And she was a beautiful as any being could be. xo
It was extraordinary. I didn't for one moment feel awkward or uncomfortable holding that observation. I reveled in it, quietly, with a huge freaking smile plastered on my face. I positively sparkled. xo
I did the training in college because the head of the theater tech team did it and I had the hots for him. Come of think of it, I followed a guy into the 12 step recovery rooms for the same reason. The universe sends me what I need to get my attention. I remember very little of it. My parents did Marriage Encounter and that worked for them like est worked for yours and probably for just as long.
Like for two or three minutes? In the span of time that's what it amounted to. I'm glad it lit a fire under my mother, for everyone's sake. And it was messy. Because it's really life. Another thing we have in common! Maybe you were in my training! xo
Coulda been! I remember very little. I remember you went in an asshole and came out an esthole. Burt Convey was perfectly cast as Werner in Semi-Tough with Burt Reynolds where Burt has a catheter and pees into a bag in his book.
I was never an asshole! Yes I was. But not then. My asshole era started later. Yes! Semi-Tough was hilarious. Burt Convy was absolutely perfect. I remember the catheter, too. EEK. xo
Friends and others in the 70's raved about their experience in those est seminars. It seemed it was that or Scientology. Always a skeptic, I never explored either. If I had, maybe I'd be differently the same as I am now. Nevertheless, it's too late for me because I prefer to pee when the urge strikes. I enjoyed hearing your perspective, and do love Ruth's monologue.
Thanks for reading, Eileen. There are always adult diapers if you feel the urge to pee and rethink your position on self-help seminars. But yes, Ruth. My favorite, favorite show. Frances Conroy is a genius. xo
Wait, does the "what you resist persists" saying come from est?? It sounds much like the "Landmark" training seminars that are around these days.
That saying "I used to be different. Now I'm the same." wow. I'm trying to figure out what "same" means to me. I don't know if I ever truly knew who I was. I was so busy contorting myself into a pretzel to please (appease) the adults in my life that I'm wondering if I ever got the chance to become me when I was little. What a puzzle this life is. Glad there's still time for us to figure it out now.
Thanks for hanging out with me this morning on this rainy, dark day. You brightened it immeasurably just by being here. (And thanks for yet another great story.) xo
Landmark is the 3rd iteration of est. LOVE you, sweetie. Take a peek at the post from Wham! Bam! I know it's a lot of ME time, but it's important and speaks to a topic you and I have been writing about lately. xo
Hah! Another thing we have in common. Graduate of the Forum, The Advanced Course, (and whatever the next one was called) here. I went in saying, "some day I'd like to write" and I came out saying, "I am a writer. That's who I am". Forever grateful...
That's great. The work is very powerful for so many people. I don't have as much of an affinity to it, but it definitely made a contribution to my life in lots of positive ways. But it was also fraught for me. But I'm a learning monkey and like to learn all kinds of ways. Realizing a dream is huge! When are you going to start writing on Substack? xo
I can't even figure out what kind of rock I grew up under or how big it must have been. I had never even heard of EST. This was an interesting read, Nan. I am glad that the lines came into their fullness for you in their own way.
OH! Thank the goddess, or Martha. I'm thrilled to hear that. There's a perfect panel for you. Are you going to do it? The site is a tiny bit stripped down, you won't be able to see last year's panel, because I'll be rebuilding it for 2026. Please come! xo
I enjoyed this so much. For example, I didn’t see the divorce coming, but as soon as it did it seemed so inevitable. And, wow, so much of that est language is now deeply entrenched the culture. Just a lot to appreciate here. Super nice work!
It reminded me of the quotation: The more things change, the more they stay the same. ~Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr A paradox with many layers!
Which echoes the Book of Ecclesiastes (1:9) which states, "What has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.”
I’ve always loved that quote. Nihil sub sole novum, learned it in Latin class in college, and had no idea it was from Ecclesiastes, as its origin.
PS. Thanks for the holiday card, Wendy! That was the sweetest. xo
You’re welcome! x
Great piece, Nan! I’d heard about est but never really knew what it was about. It was fascinating to learn from your experience.
Thanks, Chris. The training was something, that's for sure. Over time, I did a handful of graduate seminars, but it just didn't feel right to me as a healing mode. There was way too much control for me. I'm glad I did it, though. xo
Such a great essay, Nan. Love how you concluded, coming back to your center, knowing all those qualities were in you all along.
Thanks, Amy! xo
This brought back a lot of memories of people i knew who went through est- from what I heard about it, it wasn’t for me. But I love the way that you were able to see that some of the concepts facilitated a way to look at things differently- and that can be a pathway to positive change. I like the way you noted the similarities and differences between est snd the 12 step program. I read this first and then listened to the recording. The recording brought the words even more to life for me than the first ttime around.
Thank you, Sarah. I'm glad. Programs like this aren't for everyone and I've never really experienced myself as a joiner or one drawn to group events...but that seems to be changing now, a little at a time. I'm really an introvert at heart. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing you tell a story this coming year at Wham Bam! xo
Oh and I am both nervous and excited about participating in the Wham Bam! This will be a new experience for me!
I'm excited for you. I bet you have a great time. That's I what I want for you! xo
Yes I am sure I will have a good time with it:)
YUP! xo
Yeah I can relate to that. Have always been an introvert and felt apart from the world in so many ways. But I think it has gotten easier over the years as I have felt increasingly ok with my different-ness and have found some community with others who feel similarly 🌸
I think we do find our people, and sometimes it takes a while. I think getting older has also been really helpful to me, and of course doing a lot of self-work. That helped the most. I needed it.
Loved reading this, Nan. I did the est training in my late twenties. I was young enough that it was all new to me. As a child of alcoholics, the structure was very attractive to me. The lack of bathroom breaks didn't bother me at all, but would be impossible for me now. My husband and I met doing the Communication Workshop. Fell in love and been together since, 42 years. Thanks for this memory lane.
Interesting! The 12-step program that I’ve been focusing on for myself is Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. Is making a huge difference in my life. I have a lot of people in my life who found each other at est and created amazing relationships and have been together for 50 years. I think that’s so wonderful Yay for you two! That’s marvelous. xo
Yes, me too! I started in ACA in the late 80s. After awhile I realized alcohol was my problem too. We are both sober now, since the early 90s, probably the only reason we could stay together. Thanks for a thought -provoking read.
I wish I'd started ACA in the late 80s. I mostly have dealt with eating disordered behavior as my coping mechanism of choice. I've done OA, EDA, open AA meetings when I couldn't find a food program that worked for me. Alcohol was never my go to for numbing. Eating was. I think of ACA as the Ph.D. program of 12-Step (for me). I think all of our issues have tons to do with early childhood trauma, attachment issues, and growing up in dysfunctional environments. HP was a welcome and just in time addition to my life. xo
I thought you'd get a kick out of my first ACA group which met in the Sunday School room and we all had to sit on the tiny chairs! Well, we were adult children after all...
I LOVE that! Those little chairs. How perfect. xo
All that and more. I guess that's what my golden years are meant for : quiet and safe enough to do the deep trauma work that I was too busy raising kids, going back to college, working, generally keeping it together. Too hard to do that work when you're trying to keep it together! ❤️🐝
That’s so true! I needed to struggle and suffer a lot for some reason before I came to a place of willingness to fix what needed fixing. I’m so happy to have arrived in this place in time. I like you, Ms. Bee.
Same, glad to have made the connection...
Great essay. I still don’t understand the quote though. I keep almost reach it, which is, for me, the allure. I never did any of these trainings. In small town New England, it wasn’t a thing. I’m glad you met Grace. I’m glad you are happy and lighting up the with your joy.
That's how I felt for years. I really do "get it" though. Last night when I was recording today's post for Wham Bam, I saw my face, really saw it. I saw my beauty, the inner and outer, and then, and simultaneously, saw my 5-year old self. And she was so clear and sparkly and filled with love and wonder and fear and sweetness. And she was a beautiful as any being could be. xo
That’s gorgeous. I’m so happy.
It was extraordinary. I didn't for one moment feel awkward or uncomfortable holding that observation. I reveled in it, quietly, with a huge freaking smile plastered on my face. I positively sparkled. xo
You do. I’ve seen it.
I love that. xo
Oh this is AWESOME, Nan. Fuck yeah!
If anyone could "get it" it's you! xo
🥰
Great essay and introduction to your childhood and family.
Thank you, Beva! I'm glad you're here. There are a couple of stories that mention my relationship with my literary muse. xo
I did the training in college because the head of the theater tech team did it and I had the hots for him. Come of think of it, I followed a guy into the 12 step recovery rooms for the same reason. The universe sends me what I need to get my attention. I remember very little of it. My parents did Marriage Encounter and that worked for them like est worked for yours and probably for just as long.
Like for two or three minutes? In the span of time that's what it amounted to. I'm glad it lit a fire under my mother, for everyone's sake. And it was messy. Because it's really life. Another thing we have in common! Maybe you were in my training! xo
Coulda been! I remember very little. I remember you went in an asshole and came out an esthole. Burt Convey was perfectly cast as Werner in Semi-Tough with Burt Reynolds where Burt has a catheter and pees into a bag in his book.
I was never an asshole! Yes I was. But not then. My asshole era started later. Yes! Semi-Tough was hilarious. Burt Convy was absolutely perfect. I remember the catheter, too. EEK. xo
Friends and others in the 70's raved about their experience in those est seminars. It seemed it was that or Scientology. Always a skeptic, I never explored either. If I had, maybe I'd be differently the same as I am now. Nevertheless, it's too late for me because I prefer to pee when the urge strikes. I enjoyed hearing your perspective, and do love Ruth's monologue.
Thanks for reading, Eileen. There are always adult diapers if you feel the urge to pee and rethink your position on self-help seminars. But yes, Ruth. My favorite, favorite show. Frances Conroy is a genius. xo
Breakfast with Nan! (OG Nan! :)
Wait, does the "what you resist persists" saying come from est?? It sounds much like the "Landmark" training seminars that are around these days.
That saying "I used to be different. Now I'm the same." wow. I'm trying to figure out what "same" means to me. I don't know if I ever truly knew who I was. I was so busy contorting myself into a pretzel to please (appease) the adults in my life that I'm wondering if I ever got the chance to become me when I was little. What a puzzle this life is. Glad there's still time for us to figure it out now.
Thanks for hanging out with me this morning on this rainy, dark day. You brightened it immeasurably just by being here. (And thanks for yet another great story.) xo
Landmark is the 3rd iteration of est. LOVE you, sweetie. Take a peek at the post from Wham! Bam! I know it's a lot of ME time, but it's important and speaks to a topic you and I have been writing about lately. xo
Hah! Another thing we have in common. Graduate of the Forum, The Advanced Course, (and whatever the next one was called) here. I went in saying, "some day I'd like to write" and I came out saying, "I am a writer. That's who I am". Forever grateful...
That's great. The work is very powerful for so many people. I don't have as much of an affinity to it, but it definitely made a contribution to my life in lots of positive ways. But it was also fraught for me. But I'm a learning monkey and like to learn all kinds of ways. Realizing a dream is huge! When are you going to start writing on Substack? xo
A very fun read, glad to learn this about you, Nan. I love how you express your raw in emotion. Thank you.
I just checked out that YouTube video, brought me down memory lane
Thanks, Prajna! Wait which one? The Six Feet Under scene, or the est reel? xo
The est.
Ah! Did you do the training? xo
I can't even figure out what kind of rock I grew up under or how big it must have been. I had never even heard of EST. This was an interesting read, Nan. I am glad that the lines came into their fullness for you in their own way.
That is surprising. I think rocks are awesome. Love you, Amy. And it's "est." Oy vey, as my people say. xo
Oh and ps. Guess who just got invited to be on a panel for Woodstock Book fest?!
OH! Thank the goddess, or Martha. I'm thrilled to hear that. There's a perfect panel for you. Are you going to do it? The site is a tiny bit stripped down, you won't be able to see last year's panel, because I'll be rebuilding it for 2026. Please come! xo
https://woodstockbookfest.com
I’m going to find a way! Empress said they’ll help fundraise to get me there. So yes!
Great! I'm thrilled to hear that. I'm sure there'll be people you'll enjoy meeting in person. I'll tell you more then next time we chit-chat. xo