I’m glad you got what you needed. And that you can look at the experience from the other side with compassion. Sending a hug for younger you and present you.
This is fascinating! And I love the complexity of your response, your being able to see the snake oil and credit the usefulness at the same time. I emptied my piggy bank at 16 to pay for ... wait for it ... getting my full astrological chart done. I think it was $65. I was desperate for some sort of self-definition (and a reassuring sense of order) but I set my sights too low! (Or maybe too high--ha ha--the planets, get it?)
That my best decades were going to be my 30s and 40s (which almost made me despair--I was SIXTEEN. I needed a good decade NOW!). That I was an overthinker (yes) and was likely to work in something involving communications (yes). I probably forgot all the stuff that turned out to be way off base.
I can understand the almost despair...but at least something to look forward to? Was that true about your 30s and 40s? Forgetting the stuff that was off base, I would do that too. And I had my chart done in my 30s and forgot everything other than the astrologer telling me how into polyamory he was and then he propositioned me. He was a local dude who did a column for the Chronogram for years until he got me-too'ed of the publication. Go figure...xo
I'm sure it did feel like forever. I remember how very, very long it took to get from 9 to 10. The double digits felt like they would never come. And now, those fuckers won't stop coming...the pages are turning faster these days. And damn. Ack is right. xo
You've had so many rich experiences, Nan. Despite all the bumps in your road, I love reading about how courageous you've been across your life, this one among them. I love the idea that somehow, through it all, you've landed at being the best version of you today. Brava!
"I didn’t like feeling excluded. My parents seemed so happy. They seemed to be enjoying one another more than usual." A truly perfect example of how ppl get drawn into a cult...that profound need to belong and identify with ST bigger than ourselves.
Sounds like you've discovered "The Perennial Philosophy," the "ground of being."
I enjoyed this so much. For example, I didn’t see the divorce coming, but as soon as it did it seemed so inevitable. And, wow, so much of that est language is now deeply entrenched the culture. Just a lot to appreciate here. Super nice work!
Thanks, Chris. The training was something, that's for sure. Over time, I did a handful of graduate seminars, but it just didn't feel right to me as a healing mode. There was way too much control for me. I'm glad I did it, though. xo
This brought back a lot of memories of people i knew who went through est- from what I heard about it, it wasn’t for me. But I love the way that you were able to see that some of the concepts facilitated a way to look at things differently- and that can be a pathway to positive change. I like the way you noted the similarities and differences between est snd the 12 step program. I read this first and then listened to the recording. The recording brought the words even more to life for me than the first ttime around.
Thank you, Sarah. I'm glad. Programs like this aren't for everyone and I've never really experienced myself as a joiner or one drawn to group events...but that seems to be changing now, a little at a time. I'm really an introvert at heart. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing you tell a story this coming year at Wham Bam! xo
Yeah I can relate to that. Have always been an introvert and felt apart from the world in so many ways. But I think it has gotten easier over the years as I have felt increasingly ok with my different-ness and have found some community with others who feel similarly 🌸
I think we do find our people, and sometimes it takes a while. I think getting older has also been really helpful to me, and of course doing a lot of self-work. That helped the most. I needed it.
Loved reading this, Nan. I did the est training in my late twenties. I was young enough that it was all new to me. As a child of alcoholics, the structure was very attractive to me. The lack of bathroom breaks didn't bother me at all, but would be impossible for me now. My husband and I met doing the Communication Workshop. Fell in love and been together since, 42 years. Thanks for this memory lane.
Interesting! The 12-step program that I’ve been focusing on for myself is Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. Is making a huge difference in my life. I have a lot of people in my life who found each other at est and created amazing relationships and have been together for 50 years. I think that’s so wonderful Yay for you two! That’s marvelous. xo
Yes, me too! I started in ACA in the late 80s. After awhile I realized alcohol was my problem too. We are both sober now, since the early 90s, probably the only reason we could stay together. Thanks for a thought -provoking read.
I wish I'd started ACA in the late 80s. I mostly have dealt with eating disordered behavior as my coping mechanism of choice. I've done OA, EDA, open AA meetings when I couldn't find a food program that worked for me. Alcohol was never my go to for numbing. Eating was. I think of ACA as the Ph.D. program of 12-Step (for me). I think all of our issues have tons to do with early childhood trauma, attachment issues, and growing up in dysfunctional environments. HP was a welcome and just in time addition to my life. xo
I thought you'd get a kick out of my first ACA group which met in the Sunday School room and we all had to sit on the tiny chairs! Well, we were adult children after all...
All that and more. I guess that's what my golden years are meant for : quiet and safe enough to do the deep trauma work that I was too busy raising kids, going back to college, working, generally keeping it together. Too hard to do that work when you're trying to keep it together! ❤️🐝
That’s so true! I needed to struggle and suffer a lot for some reason before I came to a place of willingness to fix what needed fixing. I’m so happy to have arrived in this place in time. I like you, Ms. Bee.
Great essay. I still don’t understand the quote though. I keep almost reach it, which is, for me, the allure. I never did any of these trainings. In small town New England, it wasn’t a thing. I’m glad you met Grace. I’m glad you are happy and lighting up the with your joy.
That's how I felt for years. I really do "get it" though. Last night when I was recording today's post for Wham Bam, I saw my face, really saw it. I saw my beauty, the inner and outer, and then, and simultaneously, saw my 5-year old self. And she was so clear and sparkly and filled with love and wonder and fear and sweetness. And she was a beautiful as any being could be. xo
It was extraordinary. I didn't for one moment feel awkward or uncomfortable holding that observation. I reveled in it, quietly, with a huge freaking smile plastered on my face. I positively sparkled. xo
I did the training in college because the head of the theater tech team did it and I had the hots for him. Come of think of it, I followed a guy into the 12 step recovery rooms for the same reason. The universe sends me what I need to get my attention. I remember very little of it. My parents did Marriage Encounter and that worked for them like est worked for yours and probably for just as long.
Like for two or three minutes? In the span of time that's what it amounted to. I'm glad it lit a fire under my mother, for everyone's sake. And it was messy. Because it's really life. Another thing we have in common! Maybe you were in my training! xo
Coulda been! I remember very little. I remember you went in an asshole and came out an esthole. Burt Convey was perfectly cast as Werner in Semi-Tough with Burt Reynolds where Burt has a catheter and pees into a bag in his book.
I was never an asshole! Yes I was. But not then. My asshole era started later. Yes! Semi-Tough was hilarious. Burt Convy was absolutely perfect. I remember the catheter, too. EEK. xo
Friends and others in the 70's raved about their experience in those est seminars. It seemed it was that or Scientology. Always a skeptic, I never explored either. If I had, maybe I'd be differently the same as I am now. Nevertheless, it's too late for me because I prefer to pee when the urge strikes. I enjoyed hearing your perspective, and do love Ruth's monologue.
Thanks for reading, Eileen. There are always adult diapers if you feel the urge to pee and rethink your position on self-help seminars. But yes, Ruth. My favorite, favorite show. Frances Conroy is a genius. xo
I’m glad you got what you needed. And that you can look at the experience from the other side with compassion. Sending a hug for younger you and present you.
Thank you, Mira! xo
Wow Nan! A great piece. Somehow in all my years of living I had not heard of est! xx
Thanks, Rhaine! And oh, boy! That's amazing. And lucky you? xo
This is fascinating! And I love the complexity of your response, your being able to see the snake oil and credit the usefulness at the same time. I emptied my piggy bank at 16 to pay for ... wait for it ... getting my full astrological chart done. I think it was $65. I was desperate for some sort of self-definition (and a reassuring sense of order) but I set my sights too low! (Or maybe too high--ha ha--the planets, get it?)
Thanks, Pamela, I get it! Did you get it? What did you learn from your chart? xo
That my best decades were going to be my 30s and 40s (which almost made me despair--I was SIXTEEN. I needed a good decade NOW!). That I was an overthinker (yes) and was likely to work in something involving communications (yes). I probably forgot all the stuff that turned out to be way off base.
I can understand the almost despair...but at least something to look forward to? Was that true about your 30s and 40s? Forgetting the stuff that was off base, I would do that too. And I had my chart done in my 30s and forgot everything other than the astrologer telling me how into polyamory he was and then he propositioned me. He was a local dude who did a column for the Chronogram for years until he got me-too'ed of the publication. Go figure...xo
Oh, no!! Nan!! Ack!!
I think it WAS true about my 30s and 40s. But that felt forever away then.
I'm sure it did feel like forever. I remember how very, very long it took to get from 9 to 10. The double digits felt like they would never come. And now, those fuckers won't stop coming...the pages are turning faster these days. And damn. Ack is right. xo
You've had so many rich experiences, Nan. Despite all the bumps in your road, I love reading about how courageous you've been across your life, this one among them. I love the idea that somehow, through it all, you've landed at being the best version of you today. Brava!
"I didn’t like feeling excluded. My parents seemed so happy. They seemed to be enjoying one another more than usual." A truly perfect example of how ppl get drawn into a cult...that profound need to belong and identify with ST bigger than ourselves.
Sounds like you've discovered "The Perennial Philosophy," the "ground of being."
I enjoyed this so much. For example, I didn’t see the divorce coming, but as soon as it did it seemed so inevitable. And, wow, so much of that est language is now deeply entrenched the culture. Just a lot to appreciate here. Super nice work!
Thanks, Robin! xo
It reminded me of the quotation: The more things change, the more they stay the same. ~Jean-Baptiste Alphonse Karr A paradox with many layers!
Which echoes the Book of Ecclesiastes (1:9) which states, "What has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.”
I’ve always loved that quote. Nihil sub sole novum, learned it in Latin class in college, and had no idea it was from Ecclesiastes, as its origin.
PS. Thanks for the holiday card, Wendy! That was the sweetest. xo
You’re welcome! x
Great piece, Nan! I’d heard about est but never really knew what it was about. It was fascinating to learn from your experience.
Thanks, Chris. The training was something, that's for sure. Over time, I did a handful of graduate seminars, but it just didn't feel right to me as a healing mode. There was way too much control for me. I'm glad I did it, though. xo
Such a great essay, Nan. Love how you concluded, coming back to your center, knowing all those qualities were in you all along.
Thanks, Amy! xo
This brought back a lot of memories of people i knew who went through est- from what I heard about it, it wasn’t for me. But I love the way that you were able to see that some of the concepts facilitated a way to look at things differently- and that can be a pathway to positive change. I like the way you noted the similarities and differences between est snd the 12 step program. I read this first and then listened to the recording. The recording brought the words even more to life for me than the first ttime around.
Thank you, Sarah. I'm glad. Programs like this aren't for everyone and I've never really experienced myself as a joiner or one drawn to group events...but that seems to be changing now, a little at a time. I'm really an introvert at heart. I'm looking forward to hearing and seeing you tell a story this coming year at Wham Bam! xo
Oh and I am both nervous and excited about participating in the Wham Bam! This will be a new experience for me!
I'm excited for you. I bet you have a great time. That's I what I want for you! xo
Yes I am sure I will have a good time with it:)
YUP! xo
Yeah I can relate to that. Have always been an introvert and felt apart from the world in so many ways. But I think it has gotten easier over the years as I have felt increasingly ok with my different-ness and have found some community with others who feel similarly 🌸
I think we do find our people, and sometimes it takes a while. I think getting older has also been really helpful to me, and of course doing a lot of self-work. That helped the most. I needed it.
Loved reading this, Nan. I did the est training in my late twenties. I was young enough that it was all new to me. As a child of alcoholics, the structure was very attractive to me. The lack of bathroom breaks didn't bother me at all, but would be impossible for me now. My husband and I met doing the Communication Workshop. Fell in love and been together since, 42 years. Thanks for this memory lane.
Interesting! The 12-step program that I’ve been focusing on for myself is Adult Children of Alcoholics and Dysfunctional Families. Is making a huge difference in my life. I have a lot of people in my life who found each other at est and created amazing relationships and have been together for 50 years. I think that’s so wonderful Yay for you two! That’s marvelous. xo
Yes, me too! I started in ACA in the late 80s. After awhile I realized alcohol was my problem too. We are both sober now, since the early 90s, probably the only reason we could stay together. Thanks for a thought -provoking read.
I wish I'd started ACA in the late 80s. I mostly have dealt with eating disordered behavior as my coping mechanism of choice. I've done OA, EDA, open AA meetings when I couldn't find a food program that worked for me. Alcohol was never my go to for numbing. Eating was. I think of ACA as the Ph.D. program of 12-Step (for me). I think all of our issues have tons to do with early childhood trauma, attachment issues, and growing up in dysfunctional environments. HP was a welcome and just in time addition to my life. xo
I thought you'd get a kick out of my first ACA group which met in the Sunday School room and we all had to sit on the tiny chairs! Well, we were adult children after all...
I LOVE that! Those little chairs. How perfect. xo
All that and more. I guess that's what my golden years are meant for : quiet and safe enough to do the deep trauma work that I was too busy raising kids, going back to college, working, generally keeping it together. Too hard to do that work when you're trying to keep it together! ❤️🐝
That’s so true! I needed to struggle and suffer a lot for some reason before I came to a place of willingness to fix what needed fixing. I’m so happy to have arrived in this place in time. I like you, Ms. Bee.
Same, glad to have made the connection...
Great essay. I still don’t understand the quote though. I keep almost reach it, which is, for me, the allure. I never did any of these trainings. In small town New England, it wasn’t a thing. I’m glad you met Grace. I’m glad you are happy and lighting up the with your joy.
That's how I felt for years. I really do "get it" though. Last night when I was recording today's post for Wham Bam, I saw my face, really saw it. I saw my beauty, the inner and outer, and then, and simultaneously, saw my 5-year old self. And she was so clear and sparkly and filled with love and wonder and fear and sweetness. And she was a beautiful as any being could be. xo
That’s gorgeous. I’m so happy.
It was extraordinary. I didn't for one moment feel awkward or uncomfortable holding that observation. I reveled in it, quietly, with a huge freaking smile plastered on my face. I positively sparkled. xo
You do. I’ve seen it.
I love that. xo
Oh this is AWESOME, Nan. Fuck yeah!
If anyone could "get it" it's you! xo
🥰
Great essay and introduction to your childhood and family.
Thank you, Beva! I'm glad you're here. There are a couple of stories that mention my relationship with my literary muse. xo
I did the training in college because the head of the theater tech team did it and I had the hots for him. Come of think of it, I followed a guy into the 12 step recovery rooms for the same reason. The universe sends me what I need to get my attention. I remember very little of it. My parents did Marriage Encounter and that worked for them like est worked for yours and probably for just as long.
Like for two or three minutes? In the span of time that's what it amounted to. I'm glad it lit a fire under my mother, for everyone's sake. And it was messy. Because it's really life. Another thing we have in common! Maybe you were in my training! xo
Coulda been! I remember very little. I remember you went in an asshole and came out an esthole. Burt Convey was perfectly cast as Werner in Semi-Tough with Burt Reynolds where Burt has a catheter and pees into a bag in his book.
I was never an asshole! Yes I was. But not then. My asshole era started later. Yes! Semi-Tough was hilarious. Burt Convy was absolutely perfect. I remember the catheter, too. EEK. xo
Friends and others in the 70's raved about their experience in those est seminars. It seemed it was that or Scientology. Always a skeptic, I never explored either. If I had, maybe I'd be differently the same as I am now. Nevertheless, it's too late for me because I prefer to pee when the urge strikes. I enjoyed hearing your perspective, and do love Ruth's monologue.
Thanks for reading, Eileen. There are always adult diapers if you feel the urge to pee and rethink your position on self-help seminars. But yes, Ruth. My favorite, favorite show. Frances Conroy is a genius. xo